Celebrating the Arts' Impact in Harlem: New Heritage Theatre Group and CCNY

Episode Transcript

Vincent Boudreau00:15

Welcome to From City to the World. I'm your host Vince Boudreau, the President of the City College of New York. From City to the World is a show about how the work we're doing at City College matters to people across the city and throughout the world. We'll discuss the practical application of our research in solving real world issues like poverty, homelessness, mental health challenges, and affordable housing. Harlem has had a rich and colorful history in the arts. Starting in the 1910s through the 1930s, thousands of African Americans migrated North, some landed in Harlem and brought with them a rich culture of writing, singing, dancing, and theatrical performances. That era was called the Harlem Renaissance, and it was the golden age of African American culture. Now, one entity that carried on the tradition of stage performance in Harlem is the New Heritage Theatre Group, which is sometimes abbreviated NHTG. Founded in 1964 by the late Roger Furman, who was a revered playwright, and a director, an actor, a lecturer, it is the oldest Black non-profit theater in New York City. Mr. Furman began his theatrical career in the 1940s alongside some of the great, Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Ossie Davis, Ruby Dee, Gertrude Jeanette and others as part of the American Negro Theatre in Harlem. Upon the passing of Mr. Furman, Voza Rivers, who's with us today, assumed the leadership of the New Heritage Theatre as executive producer, and he enhanced the theater's productions to include training, experience in international exposure to and for veteran and emerging artists. Voza has produced and co-produced numerous theater and television projects in film festivals over the years. So, for instance, in 1997, Columbia University Professor, Jamal Joseph, who was himself an award-winning playwright, an author, a director, a documentary filmmaker and educator partnered with Voza, and added to New Heritage's retinue, a youth group, IMPACT Repertory Theatre. In 2008, IMPACT was nominated for an Oscar and Grammy for their original song, Raise it Up, which was used in the film, August Rush. In 2020, New Heritage became theater in residence at the City College of New York. And in 2021, New Heritage Theatre Group will co-produce in London with the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust and Warwick University, UK, A Black Girls Journey: Becoming Othello, which will star the award-winning actress, Debra Ann Byrd. So, on today's show, Voza Rivers will join Jennifer Tuttle, who's the Chair of City College's Theater Department and an Associate Professor of Theater, in a discussion about the collaboration between New Heritage and the Theater Department here at City College of New York. Voza, it's a great pleasure to welcome you to From City to the World.

Voza Rivers03:17

My pleasure, Vincent. To be a part of today's conversation is something that I really look forward to. On so many occasions when people cite the work that the theater has accomplished, one thing that is missing and overlooked is that when the theater left its home at 125th Street in Lenox Avenue, many years ago after Roger Furman passed on, we came to City College, and City College opened their doors and welcomed us. And I don't want to ever forget that or be remiss in not thanking City College over and over because it helped expand our audiences, and it gave the community an opportunity to see our work in a first-class venue.

Vincent Boudreau04:14

And it's a really proud part of our history, and ties directly into theater and resident status that we firmed up with you in 2020. Before we go on, let me tell you a little bit about Professor Jennifer Tuttle, bring her into the conversation, and then we'll be off and running. So, Jennifer Tuttle, Professor Tuttle is the Chair of City College's Theater Department, and an Associate Professor of Theater. She teaches all levels of acting, directing, and voice. She received her MFA in Theater and Acting from The Hilberry Theatre at Wayne State University, and she also received certification as a teacher of the Michael Chekhov Technique from the Great Lakes Michael Chekhov Consortium, where she also serves as an associate teacher. She earned a Certificate in Acting from the Moscow Art Theatre School. As an actor, she's worked regionally at Milwaukee Rep Theater, at New Orleans Shakespeare Festival, and the Theater at Lime Kiln among others. So she's got a whole retinue of projects. Her most recent projects include directing a new piece, Apple Table Penny, by Peter Levine which headlined Emerging Artists Theatre’s New Work Series in NYC. She's also directing the musical, Urinetown, for CCNY. I got to say I saw that three years ago and it was a stunning performance. And she's also directing and dramtizing a bilingual version of Much Ado About Nothing called, can you guess? It's called, Much Ado Para Nada for Shakespeare in Detroit. She's directing a devised piece, Immigration Stories for the Culture Project’s Women Center Stage in NYC. And Jennifer, if I'm not mistaken, that actually came out of some immigration classes at CCNY, is that the same piece I'm thinking of?

Jennifer Tuttle06:08

It is. And we were able to also perform it for your donors' luncheon this past year during the pandemic, which was just a really exciting way to kind of keep some performance alive during the pandemic. And so, thank you for that opportunity.

Vincent Boudreau06:28

No, it was tremendous to have you there. That is, I believe, also a New Heritage Theatre Group co-production with the 2020-2021 season. Jennifer, welcome to From City to the World.

Jennifer Tuttle06:41

Thank you, Vince. It's a pleasure to be here with you and with Voza. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Vincent Boudreau06:48

Well, let me start with you then, and I want to ask you to start by talking about the work of the Theater Department. What strengths have you built into the program? What kinds of work do your students do while they're on campus, and what do they typically undertake when they leave CCNY?

Jennifer Tuttle07:05

Well, I think one of the strengths is that we are a BA program, and so, we give our students opportunities to try absolutely every aspect of our art form. So, students take acting classes, they take directing, playwriting, they take technical classes, they learn how to light lights, and set sets, and costume costumes. And so, we find that our students leave here and they show up in every single one of those aspects of the industry. And even many of our students, because they are so hands on, and we have students-directed productions, four of them a year, and then we have a lot of showcases that come out of classes that produce work, and so, students even learn how to produce. And so, we have many students who are producing as they leave here too, which means they get to create their own work and have some agency over their careers in a way that I think sometimes, not to knock the FA programs, they have their strength too, but in terms of arts, I think that gives us a strength and that our students walk out of here, I think a little more empowered than just knowing one aspect of the industry.

Vincent Boudreau08:25

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I want to ask you both about the relationship between the work that you do, and the programs you run, and the community of Harlem. And so, for Jennifer, what does it mean for a theater program to live and work in Harlem? Does your place in this community influence the kind of work you do? And for Voza, we heard in the introduction how deeply your own work and the work of New Heritage Theatre is embedded in the life and history of Harlem, but I wonder if you could talk about how you envision your role and the role of the arts in our neighborhood? And Voza, maybe we start with you on this one.

Voza Rivers09:02

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes. When I started in the 1960s with Roger Furman, I didn't start with a set of tools or direction that Jennifer mentioned in terms of what the focus would be for young people wanting to study theater and all of its element. I came into it as a volunteer, as a person who lived in the community. When Roger Furman described what happened at the Public Library on 135th Street, now called the Schomburg Center, and the American Negro Theatre, and what they were taught, one of the things that he referenced was the importance of having a connection to the community. So, upon Roger's passing, I never forgot that. And Roger was not a person who wanted to go to Broadway. He wanted to do excellent work, first-class production in the community. And that resonated with me when I ascended to the leadership for the theater, that the community was extremely important. And so the kind of presentations that we have done over the years take into consideration all of the challenges that people may have in terms of living in a community, that, it sometimes is left out of the equation in terms of the appreciation for arts and culture in the community. We're celebrated globally, but sometimes people forget the foundation, how it starts, and it starts in little theaters, it starts in little dance companies, it starts with educators and teachers who are really dedicated to the craft and to share that. And I kind of inherited that model for everything that I do. It was important for me after having relationships with some of the larger institutions who came Uptown to see the work, they came to City College to see what we were doing. And eventually, that led to a relationship with Downtown and Uptown, and I celebrated that because the community now was getting an opportunity to experience what happens Downtown, but they didn't have to go far, they could stay in their own community and do that. So, giving first-class productions was very, very important to let young people from the community know what we were doing, to take what we were doing into the local schools, which we did with the Frederick Douglass Academy, creating workshops, and all of those elements that Jennifer referenced, we were able to take that into some of the local schools and cultural institutions within the community.

Vincent Boudreau12:29

Jennifer, can you sort of answer the question from the reverse side? Like, what does it mean to be running a theater program that is surrounded by the cultural, and social, and I would say even political traditions of Harlem?

Jennifer Tuttle12:44

Yes, absolutely. And I think it sort of feeds right into kind of where we leave off is exactly where Voza is picking up. And thinking of like immigration stories that you mentioned in your introduction was born out of my students' concerns, and fears, and their activism about the DACA repeal, they had a strong desire to create art around their fears of that because so many of our students are either first generation or they refer to themselves as 0.5 because so many of them have immigrated here as children and are here at City. And they just had a need to create art, and protest, and to make a social justice piece around immigration. And so, my job as a facilitator of their work was to just give some structure around that, and let them create, and let their voices be heard. And then, again, provide the training scaffolding for them to create that work, understand how that work is created, and write their own work, devise how the piece came together, so that we are, just as I said, like, those folks go out into this community, they're bringing the work and their lived experience from this community, and then pouring it back into the community in how they make their work going forward. And hopefully, as Voza said too, sharing that with Downtown so that they see what's happening up here, and that these stories are essential, and they are a huge part of the American story and the world's story.

Vincent Boudreau14:39

Yeah. I was all cued up to ask about, and I guess I will ask, but you're already kind of halfway to answering the question, but I think in different ways, our students and members of the Harlem Community, very similar kind of communities, and our students come from the South Bronx, and Harlem, and northern Manhattan. So, one of the things that I think our students and people who live close to City College share is that their stories don't often get told as often, or they don't get told in a way that they have ownership over. So maybe someone comes in and decides they're going to do a play or a film about what it's like to live in Harlem or what it's like to be an immigrant student, but it's not always the people who are living those experiences that are involved in telling those stories. But both New Heritage Theatre and City College, you're in a little bit of a different position, and I wonder what the two of you think about your role in facilitating the ability of people to tell a story that's maybe hidden from the attention of many people in the United States?

Voza Rivers15:58

Well, for me, being a part of Roger Furman's legacy, and being a person well grounded in the Harlem Community as a young person, as a teenager, and not knowing the history and the important role that theater played until I actually went into his space and volunteered to be a part of what he was doing, and absorbing that information, and then eventually having an opportunity to continue what I experienced and what I learned was so beneficial to me when Jamal Joseph and I decided that what we got from our elders was information that we were obligated to share with the younger generation. And that's why we created the youth component to teach them and to share with them the same way Roger shared the American Negro Theatre's goals and objectives with us. And through incorporating that into what we were doing, and these young people were as young as 12 years old, today, more than 1500 young people came through our Arts and Culture program with a focus on music and theater, and they have graduated, and they're graduates now of City College and Columbia University, and so many other institutions. They're taking that legacy that we shared, and they are propelling it and sharing it with other generations, and I think that that's what's so important about the work that we do. And what's important is to understand the foundation of Harlem's reputation as cultural capital of Black America, and how all of that took place. It was a grassroots opportunity for people who were living in the community to come together and to share their history. Then that's what was one of our major goals is, how do we continue to capture that history and share it, not only within the community but nationally and globally?

Vincent Boudreau18:38

Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, Jennifer, on this question of providing theater as an opportunity for new voices, how do you think about that in your own professional role?

Jennifer Tuttle18:52

I think that it's interesting listening to Voza. He came in with his cultural understanding and lived experience of Harlem, and then learned kind of the industry of theater, while I came to Harlem with the understanding of the industry in theater and my education has been exactly what Voza just mentioned, the rich history of the Harlem Renaissance, and the theatrical traditions of Harlem, and so, that's been my work as part of teaching here at City, and so I see that as my primary job. And to learn as much from my students as I probably, I'm sure you've heard this before, I think I learn more from my students sometimes than they learn from me. But, like I said, I'm teaching them structures and things, but we're really working too on decolonizing those structures, and making sure that we're respecting the traditions and the culture of this community and how that's reflected in theater, while also teaching them the skills that they'll need to work anywhere.

Vincent Boudreau20:10

You used the phrase decolonizing, and it's interesting, I want to make sure people have a clear sense of what you mean when you use that. Can you talk concretely about what it means to you to decolonize theater or decolonize a curriculum?

Jennifer Tuttle20:29

Yeah, absolutely. Well, most of our academic traditions come from a White Northern European model, and there's a tendency when you teach from that place to look at that as the correct model, and to highlight those stories, or those curriculums, or pedagogies as being either the right way to do something or the prominent way to do something. And it silences all the other traditions on the planet, really. So, teaching from where you are, and who you are with, and what the lived experiences and traditions, and models, and pedagogies of the culture that you're in is so important, especially in a place like City College, but really anywhere. And that idea that there's such a universal richness to all the traditions that we teach here at City College, and not to look at them from just a White Northern European lens.

Vincent Boudreau21:41

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's a tremendous opportunity to have students and community members who are coming from all over the world, and it's a kind of ongoing challenge to make sure that we are honoring those traditions and providing space for them to grow and to breathe. And speaking of that, we were talking about providing spaces for new voices, and Voza, I wonder if you would indulge me for a second, you once told me the story of how you brought Woza Albert! through City College and into New York and America. I wonder if you could share that story with our listeners.

Voza Rivers22:26

Yes. It's again an opportunity. We have a very small theater up in Harlem, and there was a play that a student of Hunter College who was South African found out that we had this little theater in Harlem, and he came by and shared with me a story about how in his country that dealing with apartheid was being addressed through the arts and especially through the theater. And that theaters that were in existent had to hide from the government that they were doing plays that shared the reality of the ravages of apartheid. And that there was a particular show Downtown at the Lucille Lortel Theatre called Woza Albert!, and Woza Albert! was a celebration of the life of Albert Luthuli, a South African who was renowned and worked very closely with Nelson Mandela. And I went Downtown to see this show at the Lucille Lortel Theatre on Christopher Street, and I was blown away by what I saw, because I had never seen anything, even with working with Roger, with all of these fabulous actors, I had never seen anything like that. And there were just two actors. When I got to see this show, the show had already been at the Lucille Lortel for several months, and it won the prestigious Obie Award for best actor, best directing of a play. And I met those two actors and they said to me, "Voza, we've been that Lucille Lortel Theatre, but the attendance has been excellent, and yet when we look out, we don't see anyone in the audience who look like us. Why is that?" And I explained that I'm supposed to be in the theater, and I knew nothing about their production at all. And that sometimes, I don't know if it's intentional, but the advertising for those presentations Downtown stick with the White culture, White newspapers, et cetera, and very rarely do we know what's happening in those theaters. And they said to me, "Well, where are the Black people because they're not here." And I shared with them that, "Well, I have my little theater Uptown and we are Uptown." And they said, "Where?" And I said, "Harlem." They said, "Oh my God, we have to come to Harlem." Eventually I was able to get the producer who actually brought them into the United States to agree to allow me to bring those actors up to Harlem, to our theater for three special performances. Because of that, The New York Times wrote an article from Soweto, to the village, to Harlem that landed on the front page of the Weekend section of The New York Times. And the performances were so exceptional to what they did Downtown, because now they felt that they were home, that it was picked up, and the word of mouth was that everybody had to come and see this work that these same two actors were going to see. And for Harlemites, it was the first time that a play from South Africa had come to Harlem. And I didn't know all of that history, what I was trying to do was to accommodate the request that they come Uptown, had no idea the impact that that would have, because that show, once it closed, those actors wrote another play, they said to me, "We have to come to Harlem first, this is our home." And that second play that I was not allowed to go to South Africa to see because I was on a blacklist, the only way I could listen to what they were doing was over the telephone. And I found a way to bring that play to Harlem, which was called Asinamali!, a Zulu word for we have no money, and bring it into Harlem sight unseen. And Harry Belafonte came to see it, Quincy Jones came to see it, all of these luminaries wanted to see the South African play. A year later that play was on Broadway, and nominated for a Tony, and I had the guts to bring it in sight unseen to Harlem.

Vincent Boudreau27:36

I love that story. It's also wonderful to... You hear actors all the time talk about lives here is different than television or movies, you only do it once, it's always live, and you have that interaction between folks on stage and people in the audience. And for these actors to be tuned in to what I'm sure was the obvious difference between performing these shows Downtown and performing them up in Harlem, I mean, Harlem audiences are famously different than audiences you find in other parts of the country, it must have been quite something.

Voza Rivers28:19

It really was. And because of the response that they received, they went back to write another play, which was the musical that everybody knows called Sarafina! And Lincoln Center partnered with us because Lincoln Center got a sense of the work that we were doing together once they saw the other two plays. The show came to Lincoln Center, it received wonderful reviews. And Bernie Gersten, who was the executive producer of Lincoln Center said to me, "Voza, we have recouped all of our money on this musical, and what you have told me is that a number of people from your community haven't had a chance to see it." I said, "Yeah, Lincoln Center, you have such a membership base for members that as soon as you announced that you had the play, they bought up all the tickets." So, people in our community could do that. What Bernie Gersten did, which was really a vote of confidence that he had in our theater company is he satisfied 10% of the tickets that he gave to me, that, "Give to people in the community so that they could see the show." That show was Sarafina! When it finished it's run at Lincoln Center, I said, "Bernie, I need to take the show to Harlem." And he said, "Absolutely." And that's when we brought Sarafina! to City Hall.

Vincent Boudreau29:59

That's wonderful.

Voza Rivers30:01

We got an open door in Broadway.

Vincent Boudreau30:03

Talking as we are today at what I think we all hope may be at least the beginning of the end of the pandemic, I'd like to take a second and reflect on what's happened in the arts, to the arts, over the course of these last two years, both how communities of artists have been tested, how they've been affected by the hardship of these last couple of years, and what ways they've contributed to our collective efforts to draw strength and comfort from one another. Maybe, Jennifer, what do you think?

Jennifer Tuttle30:38

It's interesting there's that meme going around that says, when you think back on this time and what got you through, your reflection is going to be the books you read, the music you listened to, the films that you watched. And so, I think art is such a powerful force at a time when people are under duress. For theater, it was a really difficult time because theater takes place in-person, in rooms, like you said, in a live setting. And so, we were, there's a term in theater called going dark, which would be like a lot of times Mondays are the days that theaters go dark, and everybody gives the actors, and technicians, and crews a day off. Well, we were dark for well over a year. And so, I think it was, while maybe other artists were having an outlet, I feel it was really, really difficult for theater because, I know, we, as a department, tried some online theater, but we're not a film program, and theater isn't film, and so, there was just no real replacement for that crackle of live theater. And what I'm noticing though is we're coming back to being fully in-person. This semester, people just have so much energy to tell... they have a ton of stories to tell, and an overwhelming desire to get back to it, and to start telling those stories. And another thing that I'm noticing is that because we've lived through this time of deep trauma, both with the pandemic and the social injustice, that really that we're, I'm hoping, starting to actually address in this country, there's also a real desire to tell some stories of joy. That's what I'm hoping, is that we are moving back to a place where we can, I mean, we've had live productions last semester and this semester, and it's just so joyful to be in a room. And people have the real need to not just tell stories of heartbreak, or trauma, or drama, but also to tell stories of joy, and love, and laughter.

Vincent Boudreau33:03

Voza, I've heard you earlier in the pandemic talking on this topic in particular on the kind of hardship that was visited, particularly on the kind of small theater companies that you were talking about earlier. I wonder if you could, first of all, give us a sense of what the toll has been,. And do you see signs of a kind of regeneration in the theater community or do we still have kind of a long way to go?

Voza Rivers33:32

It has been a difficult journey over the last two years for not only theater, but I'll just say the culture community. That kind of interaction between the artists' storytelling is part of the energy that brings to life these stories. We have to understand that a number of the artists were suffering because their livelihood was based on them being able to perform and get paid, and then that wasn't possible based on the fact that a lot of the performance spaces had to close down. Now, artists found themselves being challenged in a new way that perhaps they never thought that that would happen to them. And as a result of that, our theater partnered with the Greater Harlem Chamber of Commerce to provide food for artists, to assist them in learning to use their artistry in other ways. In other ways we were able to get computers for some of the artists so that they can do Zoom programming and participate in workshops and seminars. We, in our theater, as we were losing venue spaces that were closed, we had to turn on a dime to say that, well, is it possible that we could do workshops on the Zoom format? And we started changing a lot of things. So, for our theater, although we had reduced a lot of the live performances, we tried to keep in touch with a lot of the artists that worked with us over the years who we found out wasn't doing well. Some of it was around health, but the other area, the issues with economics, and we just found a way to change and to enhance what we were doing by understanding that we had to go virtual. And so, with the virtual programming that we were doing, we went from being in a space of 100 to 200 people to being able to show the work that we were doing to thousands of people. And as a result of that, it was very interesting, is that we resonated very well with the international community. So then we found out some of the stories and some of the artists who came from other countries who were involved with us, they would share with us an opportunity to showcase something in Nigeria, to showcase the work that we were doing in Harlem, because of Harlem's reputation to Zimbabwe, to South Africa, to Japan. And we started building a new family because of the challenges that we were facing in our community. And I know that now as things are getting better that this relationships will continue to grow because I am feeling the jubilation of the partnerships that we've now formed internationally saying, "I can't wait for you guys coming to Europe, or coming to Africa, or Africa coming to Harlem." It's going to be wonderful. It's a new opportunity.

Vincent Boudreau37:46

That's terrific. In education, one of the things that you hear very, very commonly is, of course, with teachers all around the world really going from in-person to remote teaching, and now with the opportunity to step back from that and think about what it means to teach in a less-threatening environment from a health perspective, one of the things we say all the time is, "We're not going to go back all the way. There's going to be legacies of this period that affect how we teach and how we organize education going forward." And Voza, you just talked about the expansion of your network and the construction of a community, but for either one of you, I mean, I wonder if you're also seeing this kind of the beginnings of a legacy of the pandemic in the way art is produced, or the way art is delivered, or the content of art? I mean, have we seen the great artworks that will come out of the human suffering and heroism, and the whole range of human interactions with the pandemic? And what about the medium itself? What do you think?

Voza Rivers39:08

Jennifer, you want to answer first?

Jennifer Tuttle39:12

I love that both of us are like, "Perhaps Voza will take this one first." Sure. It's interesting listening to Voza talk about the outreach that was able to happen for New Heritage. And I think that's one of the ways that academia can sometimes be a little bit, well, you know we have a fixed place, and perhaps we're not able to be as nimble sometimes as something like New Heritage. So I'm listening to Voza talk about how they flourished during the pandemic, and it makes me think I'm so excited about our collaboration with New Heritage, because we have spaces, and we have resources, and things that we can offer, and they're different than what New Heritage can offer. And if you put those pieces together, we're stronger together, if that makes sense. And so, I'm wondering if that's part of how things changed. We're all looking for where we can make connections, we're looking for how we can expand our outreach, we're looking for how we can continue to make our... I'm sure we've all thought we probably will live through something like this again in our lifetimes. So, I think like you said, Vince, we have to be forward thinking about what are the best practices and things that we've learned from this, and how do we make lemonade out of lemons. And, I mean, Voza absolutely did, so I'm just sitting here in awe, and happy that we're in this community together.

Voza Rivers41:10

Jen, you stepped into my office once and you felt something, you felt this history, and you didn't really get a sense of the relationship with City College, which, like I always say, hopefully laid a foundation for what I'm doing. Then Jennifer earlier spoke about the Eurocentric approach to arts and culture, but in theater in particular. And so, a lot of students get that history if they go to schools to study theater, Shakespeare, et cetera. When Roger, and Ossie, and those guys were looking at theater, they were looking at the African Grove Theater that was founded 200 years earlier as the first African American theater in the United States. And that history was embedded and motivating in the 1940s being exposed to that early history, and the journey that happened after that first theater, that first Black theater closed, and that became the foundation on what they built. When I met Jennifer also briefly, there was something magnetic about how she responded, and I knew, again, that there was this opportunity of us doing something really great together because it comes full circle. You know how they say, you never forget the first kiss. And it felt so good to just talk about City College and what has been going on, and what has been happening in the community. There's going to be a lot of change over the next two years that we are going be experiencing. Broadway and the Broadway Community has now opened up itself to saying that, "Yes, we need to do more Black plays." Coming out of the pandemic there are more Black plays over the last year in the whole history of Black plays being produced. 15 Black fellows on Broadway, unheard of, but that's what's happening right now. But the thing that I address in a lot of those companies that come to me to say, "Voza, how do we get your audience to come?" And I said, "Well, first of all, you have to make them feel welcome, and it depends on who is inviting them." And they said, "Well, Voza, I mean, I've done it with Lincoln Center, and Lincoln Center will say, 'We're just doing this in conjunction with Voza, you put his name on something, and we're going to get the Black audience to come to our shows.' And we started doing it." At first I was a little hesitant about that because I didn't want the people Uptown to think that I was abandoning them, but with Lincoln Center, and Bernie Gersten, and Greg Mosher, those guys, they saw a partnership, and we did that very well for over a 15-year period of working together and creating new opportunities with new festivals and new ways. And what worked at Lincoln Center and worked in Harlem, we could go to Washington DC with it, we could go to Atlanta, Georgia with it. It opened up new opportunities that we didn't even think about initially of working together. And I just feel that this opportunity will come up again with us working together.

Vincent Boudreau45:08

You both have referenced in passing the fact and I did in my introduction earlier that in 2020, the New Heritage Theatre Group became a company in residence at CCNY. I wonder if you could just tell us how that came about and what it means for both institutions.

Voza Rivers45:33

I was just very, very fortunate that I had the history of working with City College, so I had the institutional history. And as I shared it with some of the, I don't want to say instructors, because there were vice presidents involved, who also knew some of that history, and I said that I would love to be able to share with the students in the community some of the kind of programming that we did, so they were pleased that we brought Ruby Dee when she wanted to impress me with an artist that she said was the greatest actress that she had seen since Paula Robinson. And she brought that artist to City College, her special invited people, about 200 of us, we were in a 600-seats theater to see a solo performance on the stage of City College. And I said, "Wow, but Ruby, this is one actor, we could have been anywhere, a small theater." "No. It was important for it to happen in City College." And I took that experience of saying that with the history of college and what the college represented for arts and culture way back when a lot of the music concerts would have been outdoors. And its history, it just became the right place to have a conversation. And we did a film festival together working with some of the instructors, it just felt good again to have that relationship and to bring the community to the campus.

Vincent Boudreau47:22

Jennifer, what about for you and the theater program? What does it mean to have a company in residence?

Jennifer Tuttle47:30

To pick up on what Voza said, that idea of especially after the pandemic, reminding folks that we're here, that we're in Harlem, that this is their campus, welcoming people in. And again, like Voza said, who makes invitation matters. And telling stories that are important to the people in the community that come from the community, I think having a partner, and again, also just that idea of, if we're talking about really decolonizing, it's like I'm white, and, I mean, New Heritage is so aptly named, I mean, it's the past, the present, and the future of the arts in particularly theater here, but all of the arts in Harlem, and so, to have a partner who's so capable, has so much outreach, has just a compendium of history, but a forward, is in the here and now, and has a forward-looking future plan. And the idea that our students will be able to be a part of that, and the kind of connections and relationships that they'll make seeing somebody like Voza, who has literally done everything. You have the will and the energy of like five people, Voza, you really do. So, I don't know, I just think that's so important that people can, you know, when you're young, it's so important to see role models who are aspirational and have done the things that you dream about. So, I think all of those things are what, like Voza said that the first time we met there was just this instant, like, just like a spark of like, we're going to have a great partnership.

Vincent Boudreau49:24

That's great. I think I've got time for one more question. And so, I'm going to ask a question that gives you both the opportunity to constructively criticize the work that we do at the college. And this is what I'm thinking, I've always had it in my mind that alongside the primary educational mission of a place like City College, it has a vital social and cultural role, it should be a social and cultural institution in the community. And so, I want to ask, do you think we're fulfilling that role? And if we're not doing all we should be doing in that vein, what should we be doing to be a stronger resource to the public up in Harlem?

Voza Rivers50:08

I mentioned partnerships and friendships when I mentioned Lincoln Center. When the team at Lincoln Center retired from Lincoln Center, Greg Mosher was tasked by the President of Columbia University to come to Harlem to celebrate the theater program at Columbia to receive the same kind of accolades and reputation that the School of Journalism or all of the other divisions of Columbia University. And Greg Mosher gave me a call and said, "Voza, I'm in Harlem." I said, "Well, that's really great." And he said, "And the mandate is to get the students and the school to focus on art and culture in a way that they haven't done before. And part of that is they want to be able to connect to the community." I believe that opportunity... Again, it was because of that invitation of Greg Mosher moving to Harlem, he has now left Columbia, and he chairs the Theater Program at Hunter College. And then the first thing he does when he gets to Hunter is to call me again to talk to the students and motivate the students at Hunter College about what happened in Harlem. And so, it is very, very interesting that it comes from relationships, and it not only comes from people like myself, but if you're in an educational institution, we have to share that, and elevate the understanding between the teachers at the college on the kind of initiative and why this is important. So, it's just not talking outside of the college, it's talking inside and letting other people understand the importance of what is being proposed.

Vincent Boudreau52:22

Jennifer, what do you think?

Jennifer Tuttle52:24

One of your initiatives when you became president was to, you know, there's this kind of image some times of city colleges being like the city on the hill. And I think it's crucial that we make sure that that hill isn't too high of a slope to walk up. I think we've had Harlem come to us, but I'm not sure we've gone to Harlem as often, and as much as we can, and I know that's something that you've been working on. And I think it's exactly the kind of relationship that we're talking about here today that will change that because I just believe we are in this vital thriving community with such history, such a beacon to the world, and we have the great good fortune of being here. So, I think we could do more for there to be kind of that fluidity as being both in Harlem and a part of Harlem, and Harlem being a part of us, and that flow.

Vincent Boudreau53:25

We have to quote you from 15 seconds ago, we have the great good fortune of being here, and I think that's a really great way to put a punctuation mark on this conversation. Friends, thank you so much for this. First of all, those of you listening on the radio, I want to thank you for listening. To From City to the World, I want to give a special thanks to our two fabulous guests, Voza Rivers, who is a founding member of the New Heritage Theatre Group, and its current executive producer. He was joined by our own Jennifer Tuttle here at City College who chairs our Theater Department, and is an Associate Professor of Theater. Can't thank you both enough. What a great conversation, and can't wait to see what the collaboration between the college and New Heritage Theatre Group produces. So, thank you both for spending some time with us today.

Voza Rivers54:24

Thank you.

Jennifer Tuttle54:25

Thank you.

Vincent Boudreau54:27

This show was produced by Angela Harden. I help out a little bit, so I get a little bit of credit there, and I hope to have you back next month for our next show. Thanks for joining us, everybody.